Master diagram of 237 samples
categorized by G subgroups
Return to Main Diagram Page |
Haplogroup
G
Phylogenetic diagram of 67-marker samples
...and calculated time relationships of G
persons below the diagrams
NOTE: This page
uses new, tentative haplogroup subgroup designations that are not yet
used by
the commercial labs. For a discussion of this, link
to the clades page
Master diagram of 237
samples
categorized by G subgroups
Time
Calculations
[April
2008 revision of
text. Diagrams above are also from April 2008]
Time
relationships are normally calculated using
specialized Fluxus software for DNA work. The
network diagrams
shown above comprise a median-joining network created by Fluxus.
The earlier versions of this page used Fluxus software to
calculate general time relationships between
persons and their
common male ancestor. Fluxus is not being used this time. There are
problems in counting the number of mutations that separate two persons'
results. Fluxus counts the
number of mutations that have occurred
between the two persons and calculates the time separation.
The Fluxus software does not take into account the fact that
occasionally an individual will
experience a mutation of two or more values.
The software treats this as multiple mutations when
actually they represent a single mutation event. The second problem is that markers can either
increase
or decease in value when they mutate. If they mutate back to
an original value, two mutation events will
be hidden. These back
mutations are uncommon events in recent centuries, but they become more
frequent as one moves back in time. In deep ancestry, there
are possibly more hidden back mutations
than multi-step mutations, resulting in a
situation where there are more actual net mutations than can be
calculated by
simply counting the number of mutations. Researchers are typically using
"fudge
factors" to account for these problems when doing time calculations
though these fudge factors are
expressed in complex mathematical
terms. Theoretically such fudge factors should increase in value
the more
mutations are encountered (an obvious longer distance in time!), but the fudge
factor used are
a single unchanging
number.
In addition, individuals experience different mutation
rates. If one examines the results from four
descendants of a common
ancestor who lived 350 yrs. ago, two of the descendants may match all of
37
markers
except one. Another two descendants may have 3 mutations present.
Just counting the
mutations for a time calculation would suggest that two of
the men are much farther removed from the
common ancestor than the other
two. So the best a time calculation can do is provide the
midpoint
of a possible range of years. As one goes back farther in
time, the time range increases.
Most published research that provides time
calcuations based on differences in marker results have
used less than 10
markers. These small marker sets are particularly prone to distorted
results because
a multi-step mutation in just one marker will suggest
significant more time separation than exists. This
one marker's
problem will be diluted if 37 or more markers are available.
The problem of small marker
sets makes time calculations in most
published studies a bit suspect to me. For this reason, the 67-marker
set from Family Tree DNA is the most desirable set to use.
However, there are still not enough
samples available, and the researchers
are not yet able to render an accurate mutation rate for markers
38 through 67.
The diagram above does do a good
job of keeping men of the same G subgroup together, and this
suggests it
does a good job of showing relationships. It should be noted that
published diagrams,
using Fluxus software, based on small marker sets often
have a mixture of subgroups on the same
branch, further emphasizing the need
for an adequate number of markers so as to keep related
persons together on the
diagram.
Because of all these problems, I have reverted to using 37-marker
sets for the calculations below.
I have tried,
in doing this, to use persons as the key persons used for comparisons those
having
the same
proportion of mutations in markers 38-67 of their 67-marker
set as in markers 1-37.
This is being done because a few
persons will be found to be more genetically distant with additional
markers and a few will be more closely related. In addition, I have
eliminated from comparisons any
man who seems to have developed any unusual multi-step
mutation.
For persons in recent centuries, I have used a mutation rate as
seen in pedigree studies. The
average mutation per marker per
generation has been calculated at .004 in studies of father and
son pairs and a
little faster in pedigree studies. These studies should have made
adjustments in
their
mutation rate for any multi-step mutations found, but it is unclear if this was
done. Thus their
rate provided may be a little too fast.
At any rate, in
simple terms, with a 37-marker set in available pedigrees, individuals 350 yrs
from
a common ancestor have typically been experiencing 2-3 mutations
difference. This will be the
basis of time calculations below. As
the number of mutations increases, a fudge factor of increasing
value was
added to account for hidden mutations more prevalent the farther one retreats
into history.
The time difference calculated is to be considered only a
mid-point of a range of possible time
periods. The range will
increase as ones goes back farther in time and become increasingly
imprecise.
While the method used here lacks the mathematically
niceties of published studies, the problems
of counting mutations does
not really lend itself to the precision suggested by the published
studies.
And the method used here makes use of larger marker sets
and has other advantages. But
remember
these are only the estimated mid-points of a range of possible time
periods. Shorter
times periods will have more reliability than longer ones.
Note: summary of estimated ages of G subgroups
listed at very bottom of page
This page uses new, tentative haplogroup
subgroup designations that are not yet
used by the commercial labs. For
a discussion of this, link to the clades
page
Time
relationships for G1 and G2c persons compared to
others
From
several G1 persons.....comparing
............................Mills.......and Salume
to
other G1
persons:
Mills
(Wales)
----- 3275
yrs
Salume
(Jordan) 3275
yrs
----
Mozesson
(Poland)
2800 yrs
3480 yrs
Herres
(Germany) 3370
yrs 3480
yrs
other
persons:
Stalin
(Georgia) -
G2a1
4600 yrs
4850
yrs
Benedict (England) -
G2a1 3750
yrs 4850
yrs
Bopp (Germany) - G2a U13+ Germanic
Grp. 3750 yrs 4200
yrs
Vorster (Switzerl.) - G2a U13+ Germanic
Grp. 2900
yrs 3275
yrs
Botteron (Switz)-G2a DYS388= 13,Engl-Swiss Grp. 3275
yrs
4200
yrs
Nichols (Engl.) - G2a DYS388-13, Engl.-Swiss Grp 3150 yrs
4050
yrs
Williams (Wales) - G2a DYS388=13, DYS594=11 2875
yrs 3150
yrs
Bird (England) - G2a DYS388=13,
DYS594=11 3600
yrs 3750yrs
Rufener
(Switzl) - G2a DYS388=13 Group
1 3370yrs 4050
yrs
Smithers (Engl.) - G2a DYS388=13 Group
1 3150
yrs 3900
yrs
Powers (Ireland) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp. 3275
yrs 3370
yrs
Stearns
(England) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp. 3275
yrs 3150 yrs
Goldstein (Ukraine) - G2a
Ashkenazi Grp. 3900 yrs 3480
yrs
Pavliscak (Slovakia) - G2a Ashkenazi
Grp. 3600
yrs 3275
yrs
Loccisano (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 3370 yrs 2875
yrs
Nicolo (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 3020 yrs 3750
yrs
Rivera
(Puerto R) - G2a clade #
20
4200 yrs
4450 yrs
Turner (England) - G2a clade #
20 4200
yrs 3900
yrs
Erciyes (Ukran. Turk) - G2a no
clade
3150 yrs 3370
yrs
Kapletia
(India) - G2a no
clade 2875
yrs 3480
yrs
Singh (India) - G2a no
clade
2875 yrs 2950
yrs
Ader (Poland) -G2c
Ashkenazis
4050
yrs
3480 yrs
Schreier (Ukraine) - G2c
Ashkenazis
4450
yrs 3480
yrs
From several Clade # 1 --
G2c Ashkenazis.....comparing ...Ader.......and Schreier
to
within
same clade:
Ader (Poland)
----
700 yrs
Schreier
(Ukraine)
700
yrs
----
Feldman
(Russia)
1000
yrs
575 yrs
Rhode
(Lithuania)
700
yrs
250 yrs
Krotenberg
(Poland)
575 yrs
250
yrs
Squires
(Ukraine?)
700
yrs
350 yrs
other
persons:
Mills (Wales) -
G1
4050
yrs 4450
yrs
Mozesson
(Poland) -
G1
3750
yrs 3150
yrs
Salume (Jordan) -
G1 3480
yrs 3480
yrs
Stalin
(Georgia) -
G2a1 3900 yrs
4050
yrs
Benedict (England) -
G2a1 3600
yrs 3600
yrs
Bopp (Germany) - G2a U13+ Germanic
Grp.
5260 yrs 5260
yrs
Vorster (Switzerl.) - G2a U13+ Germanic
Grp. 4200
yrs 3900
yrs
Botteron (Switz)-G2a DYS388=13,Engl-Swiss Grp. 4600
yrs 4600
yrs
Nichols (Engl.) - G2a DYS388-13, Engl.-Swiss Grp. 5050
yrs 4600
yrs
Williams (Wales) - G2a DYS388=13, DYS594=
11 3600yrs
3275yrs
Bird (England) - G2a DYS388=13, DYS594=
11 4200
yrs 3900yrs
Rufener
(Switzl) - G2a DYS388= 13Group
1 5260yrs
4200
yrs
Smithers (Engl.) - G2a DYS388=13 Group
1 4600
yrs 4600
yrs
Powers (Ireland) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp. 4450
yrs 4050
yrs
Stearns
(England) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp. 3750 yrs 3275
yrs
Goldstein (Ukraine) - G2a
Ashkenazi Grp.
3900
yrs 3480
yrs
Pavliscak (Slovakia) - G2a Ashkenazi
Grp.
3750
yrs 3370
yrs
Loccisano (Italy) - G2a clade #
19
3020
yrs 3150
yrs
Nicolo (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 3900
yrs 3900
yrs
Rivera
(Puerto R) - G2a clade #
20
3150 yrs 3020
yrs
Turner (England) - G2a clade #
20 3750
yrs 3480
yrs
Erciyes (Ukran. Turk) - G2a no
clade
4450
yrs 4050
yrs
Kapletia
(India) - G2a no
clade
5260 yrs 4850
yrs
Singh (India) - G2a no
clade
4600 yrs
4850
yrs
Time Relationships for G2a1
groups compared to other
G2a
[for comparisons of G1 and G2c to G2a, see above]
From several G2a
persons,
comparing.............................Stalin.....and..Benedict......to
other G2a1
persons:
Stalin
(Georgia)
-----
1900
yrs
Benedict
(England)
1900
yrs
-----
Gursel
(Turkey) 2875
yrs 1400
yrs
Moody (England) 2500
yrs 1650
yrs
Sloan/Solinski
(Galicia)
2000
yrs 1900
yrs
other G2a
persons:
Bopp (Germany) - G2a U13+ Germanic
Grp. 3480 yrs 3480
yrs
Vorster (Switzerl.) - G2a U13+ Germanic
Grp. 3150
yrs 3020
yrs
Botteron (Switz)-G2a DYS388= 13,Engl-Swiss
Grp. 3480 yrs
2875
yrs
Nichols (Engl.) - G2a DYS388-13, Engl.-Swiss Grp. 3020
yrs 2800
yrs
Williams (Wales) - G2a DYS388=
13, DYS594=
11 3020 yrs
2800
yrs
Bird (England) - G2a DYS388=13, DYS594= 11 3600 yrs 3750
yrs
Rufener
(Switzl) - G2a DYS388= 13 Group
1 3370
yrs 4050
yrs
Smithers (Engl.) - G2a DYS388= 13 Group
1 3020 yrs
3900
yrs
Powers (Ireland) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp. 3020
yrs 2800
yrs
Stearns
(England) - G2 Engl.-Italian
Grp.
3275 yrs 3150
yrs
Goldstein (Ukraine) - G2a
Ashkenazi Grp.
3900
yrs
3480
yrs
Pavliscak (Slovakia) - G2a Ashkenazi
Grp. 3600
yrs 3275
yrs
Loccisano (Italy) - G2a clade #
19
3275 yrs
2875
yrs
Nicolo (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 3020
yrs
3750
yrs
Rivera
(Puerto R) - G2a clade #
20
4050
yrs 4450
yrs
Turner (England) - G2a clade #
20 4450
yrs
3900
yrs
Erciyes (Ukran. Turk) - G2a no
clade
3600
yrs 3275
yrs
Kapletia
(India) - G2a no
clade 3480 yrs 2875
yrs
Singh (India) - G2a no
clade 2700
yrs 2950
yrs
From several G2a persons
U13+,
comparing....................Bopp.....and.....Vorster.....to
other
G2a
U13+ persons:
Bopp (Germany)
---- 820 yrs
Vorster (Switzerl.)
820 yrs
----
Spadafora
(Italy) 1400
yrs 455
yrs
Brabec
(Bohemia)
820 yrs
1400 yrs
Vaillant/Veneziano
(Italy) 945
yrs 1550
yrs
Tims
(England)
1900 yrs
1550 yrs
Lees (England) - Clade #
16
2500 yrs 1780
yrs
Bentley (England) - Clade #
9 1550
yrs 1550
yrs
other G2a
persons:
Nikitin
(Georgia)-G2a DYS388=12
2500 yrs 1780
yrs
Botteron
(Switz)-G2a DYS388= 13,Engl-Swiss Grp. 3370
yrs 2875
yrs
Nichols (Engl.) - G2a DYS388-13, Engl.-Swiss Grp. 2700
yrs 2500
yrs
Williams (Wales) - G2a DYS388= 13, DYS594= 11 2700
yrs 2100
yrs
Bird (England) - G2a DYS388= 13, DYS594= 11 3275
yrs 2800
yrs
Rufener
(Switzl) - G2a DYS388= 13 Group
1 2875 yrs
2600
yrs
Smithers (Engl.) - G2a DYS388= 13 Group
1 2875
yrs 2950
yrs
Powers (Ireland) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp. 3150
yrs 2700
yrs
Stearns
(England) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp.
2800 yrs
2100
yrs
Goldstein (Ukraine) - G2a
Ashkenazi Grp. 3750
yrs 3150
yrs
Pavliscak (Slovakia) - G2a Ashkenazi
Grp.
3600 yrs
2875
yrs
Loccisano (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 3275
yrs 2700
yrs
Nicolo (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 3480
yrs 2800
yrs
Rivera
(Puerto R) - G2a clade #
20 3480 yrs 3150
yrs
Turner (England) - G2a clade #
20
3150 yrs 2875
yrs
Erciyes (Ukran. Turk) - G2a no
clade 2800
yrs 2250
yrs
Kapletia
(India) - G2a no
clade
2700
yrs 1780
yrs
Singh (India) - G2a no
clade
3600 yrs 2875
yrs
Stalin (Georgia) -
G2a1 3480
yrs 3150 yrs
Benedict (England) -
G2a1 3480
yrs 3020
yrs
From several G2a persons, DYS388=13, English-Swiss
Subgrp
comparing Botteron..and.....Nichols.....to
other
English-Swiss subgroup
persons:
Botteron (Switz)
----- 700 yrs
Nichols
(Engl.) 700
yrs
-----
Haesenne
(France)
700 yrs
700 yrs
Ruff
(Switz.) 820
yrs 575
yrs
Lincoln
(England)
700 yrs 1000
yrs
Howard (Engl.) 1000
yrs 820
yrs
other DYS388=13 G2a
persons:
Rufener
(Switzl) - G2a DYS388= 13 Group
1
575 yrs
575 yrs
Smithers (Engl.) - G2a DYS388= 13 Group
1
945
yrs 945
yrs
Williams (Wales) - G2a DYS388= 13, DYS594= 11 1180
yrs 1180
yrs
Bird (England) - G2a DYS388=13, DYS594=
11 1650
yrs 1650
yrs
other G2a
persons:
Nikitin
(Georgia) 2250
yrs 2000
yrs
Powers
(Ireland) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp. 2100
yrs 2100
yrs
Stearns
(England) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp.
2100
yrs 2000
yrs
Goldstein (Ukraine) - G2a
Ashkenazi Grp. 3020
yrs 2950
yrs
Pavliscak (Slovakia) - G2a Ashkenazi
Grp. 2700
yrs 2100
yrs
Loccisano (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 3150
yrs 3020
yrs
Nicolo (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 2700
yrs 2875
yrs
Rivera
(Puerto R) - G2a clade #
20
3480 yrs 3480
yrs
Turner (England) - G2a clade #
20
2950 yrs 2950
yrs
Erciyes (Ukran. Turk) - G2a no
clade
3150 yrs 3275
yrs
Kapletia
(India) - G2a no
clade
2875 yrs 2700
yrs
Singh (India) - G2a no
clade
3370 yrs 3370
yrs
Bopp
(Germany) G2a,
U13+
3370 yrs 2700
yrs
Vorster (Switzerl.) G2a,
U13+ 2875
yrs 2500
yrs
Stalin (Georgia) -
G2a1
3480 yrs 3020
yrs
Benedict (England) -
G2a1 2875
yrs 2800
yrs
From several G2a persons,
DYS388=13, Group
I
comparing...Rufener..and.....Smithers.....to
other Group
I persons:
Rufener (Switzl)
- ----- 1000
yrs
Smithers (Engl.)
- 1000 yrs
-----
Van Hemert
(Holland)
1780 yrs 2250
yrs
Vizenor
(France) 1550
yrs
1650
yrs
Hamman
(Germany)
1180 yrs 1400
yrs
Gherardi
(Italy) 1000
yrs 1780
yrs
Wenzel/Venzl
(Czech.)
945
yrs 1900
yrs
Culbreath
(Ireland) 1000
yrs
1550
yrs
Jones # 8
(Wales)
1650
yrs 1550
yrs
Dillman
(Germany)
1650
yrs 1780
yrs
Hegie
(Switzerland)
1900
yrs 2000
yrs
Gonzalez
(Spain) 945
yrs 1400
yrs
Jarvis
(England)
1180 yrs 1550
yrs
other DYS 388=
13 G2a
persons:
Botteron (Switz) - Engl.-Swiss
Grp.
575
yrs 945
yrs
Nichols
(Engl.) - Engl.-Swiss
Grp. 575
yrs 945
yrs
Bayless (French) - Engl.-French
Grp.
1400
yrs 1550
yrs
Bryant (England) - Engl. French
Grp.
1180
yrs 1650
yrs
Poetgens (France) - Group
II
1650
yrs 2000
yrs
Merck
(Germany) - Group
II
1550
yrs 1650
yrs
Quinn
(Ireland) - Group
II 1180
yrs 1000
yrs
Williams (Wales) - DYS594=
11
1000 yrs 1780
yrs
Bird (England) - DYS594=
11 1180yrs 1900
yrs
other
G2a persons:
Niktin
(Georgia)
1900 yrs 2250
yrs
Powers
(Ireland) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp. 2100 yrs 2600
yrs
Stearns
(England) - G2a Engl.-Italian
Grp. 2250 yrs 2250
yrs
Goldstein (Ukraine) - G2a
Ashkenazi Grp. 3480 yrs 2950
yrs
Pavliscak (Slovakia) - G2a Ashkenazi
Grp.
2600 yrs 3020
yrs
Loccisano (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 3370
yrs 3150
yrs
Nicolo (Italy) - G2a clade #
19
2800 yrs 3020
yrs
Rivera
(Puerto R) - G2a clade #
20 3600 yrs 3750
yrs
Turner (England) - G2a clade #
20 3020 yrs 3150
yrs
Erciyes (Ukran. Turk) - G2a no
clade
3020 yrs 3275
yrs
Kapletia
(India) - G2a no
clade
2600 yrs 3020
yrs
Singh (India) - G2a no
clade 3275 yrs 3370
yrs
Bopp
(Germany) G2a,
U13+
2875 yrs
2875
yrs
Vorster (Switzerl.) G2a,
U13+
2600
yrs 2950
yrs
Stalin (Georgia) -
G2a1
3370
yrs 3020
yrs
Benedict (England) -
G2a1
4050
yrs 3900
yrs
From several G2a
persons, English-Italian
Group
comparing...Powers....and...Stearns.....to
other G2a
English-Italian persons:
Powers
(Ireland) -
----- 1180 yrs
Stearns
(England)
-
1180 yrs ------
Reynolds
(England) 1000
yrs 350
yrs
Depetrillo (Italy)
2000 yrs 2000
yrs
other G2a
persons:
Nikitin
(Georgia)
2100
yrs 1550
yrs
Rufener
(Switzl) - G2a DYS388=13, Grp
I 2100
yrs 2250
yrs
Smithers (Engl.) - G2a DYS388=13, Grp
I 2600
yrs 2250
yrs
Botteron (Switz) -G2a DYS388-13, Engl.-Swiss Grp 2100
yrs 2100
yrs
Nichols
(Engl.) - G2a DYS388-13, Engl.-Swiss Grp 2100
yrs 2000
yrs
Williams (Wales) - G2a DYS388=13, DYS594= 11 2000
yrs 1780
yrs
Bird (England) - G2a DYS388=13, DYS594= 11
2100 yrs 1650
yrs
Goldstein (Ukraine) - G2a
Ashkenazi Grp. 2100
yrs 1650
yrs
Pavliscak (Slovakia) - G2a Ashkenazi
Grp. 1400
yrs 1650
yrs
Loccisano (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 3020
yrs 2875
yrs
Nicolo (Italy) - G2a clade #
19 2700
yrs 2875
yrs
Rivera
(Puerto R) - G2a clade #
20
2950
yrs 2950
yrs
Turner (England) - G2a clade #
20
2250 yrs 2600
yrs
Erciyes (Ukran. Turk) - G2a no
clade 2100
yrs 2500
yrs
Kapletia
(India) - G2a no
clade
2000 yrs 2000
yrs
Singh (India) - G2a no
clade 2875
yrs 2875
yrs
Bopp
(Germany) G2a,
U13+
3150
yrs 2800
yrs
Vorster (Switzerl.) Ga2,
U13+
2700
yrs 2100
yrs
Stalin (Georgia) -
G2a1
3020 yrs 3275
yrs
Benedict (England) -
G2a1
2800
yrs 3150
yrs
Rough Estimate of When G Subgroups
Emerged
3000
BCE 1500 BCE
1000 BCE 500 BCE 500
CE 1000
CE
-------------------G1
[probably earlier, but comparison persons may be long
dead]
----------------------G2a
---------------------------------------------------------clade
#
20
---------------------------------------------------clade
#
19
---------------------------U13+
Grp
------------------------------DYS388=13
Grp.
------------------------------------DYS594=11
Subgrp.
------------------------------Engl.-Italian
Grp.
------------------------------Ashkenazi
Grp.
-----------------G2a1
------------G2c
-------------------------------------------------------------G2c
Ashkenazis
The other known subgroups do not
have enough data to place them on the chart.
The most recent estimate
for the origin of haplogroup G is 18,000 BCE, but only ancient
DNA
testing can
provide an accurate estimate.
The G2 groups shown likely
share some common branches, rather than the individual
branches
shown. But not enough data are available to confirm this
supposition.