Details about the English-Swiss subgroup within
G2a3 (U8*) clade (DYS388=13)

                       link here to all persons listed here in Y-Search              link here to the lab results in Haplo G Project
                                  link here to the Sorenson Y-DNA database                link here to YHRD database
                                 [search for surname using FTDNA values]

Explanation of this subgroup
Please note that all references to the old terminology for this group have been changed here to
say G2a. Some other locations on the Internet may still use the old term, G2.

In the diagram above Ruff is found within the same node as Walker # 6.

This subgroup is an integral part of group 1, but the men listed here all share a more recent
common ancestor. The common ancestor (or closely related common ancestors) shared by this subgroup
probably lived in the late Middle Ages. There was an obvious split of those with English-type
surnames and Swiss/German ones within this subgroup probably also in the late Middle Ages
just before surnames came into common use. Some of the men have pedigrees that go back to the
Renaissance, showing this was not a recent emigration.

There are persons in the remainder of Group 1 of this clade who are relatively close genetically to
this subgroup.  In cases where a common ancestor within 1000 yrs can be calculated between a member
of this subgroup and persons in the remainder of Group 1 , they are listedbelow.

It is known that the members of this subgroup are G2a, but not G2a1 or G2a2.  One of the men
below was part of the Garvey group project which found additional G2 mutations.  It is highly
likely, therefore, that this subgroup has the new U8 mutation but lacks U1, U13 and U16. This combination of
findings will possibly be categorized as G2a3* when the project is finished and submitted for
categorization.

See the description for the overall Group 1 for further comments. Note also that the main Group 1
page lists persons from eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Iran who might belong somewhere in
Group 1. It is unlikely these easterners would be part of this subgroup.

Persons probably belonging to this subgroup    June 2007 update
............confirmed members with 37 markers listed on the graph above are in bold
.....................those with fewer than 37 markers who only seem to belong to the clade are in plain type

who list origins in England
Howard # 1 PN6AT in Y-Search. 41933 in G Project. Confirmed by the lab as G2a,
          but unclear if tested further. Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs with Ruff (Swiss?),
          Kincaid # 2 (N. Ireland), and 3 Americans, Steeley, French #1 and Navoyski. [the latter is an
          assumed surname]
Bailey This is a group of related persons with this surname in Y-Search. They will not be listed
          individually. Link here to view the samples in Y-Search. Most seem to be in G Project.
          One of the Baileys was found by the lab to be G2a, but unclear if tested further. One of the tested
          men lists origins in England, and the rest list only American origins.  This grouping shares a
          common ancestor within 1000 yrs. with Ruff (Swiss?), Vizenor (French), Howard (English) and
          2 Americans, Steeley and Navoyski. [the latter is an assumed surname] [Note: this Bailey group here
          does not include Bailey # 4 and # 6 who belong to a different grouping]
  Massey TKXBD in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether confirmed or predicted
          as G. Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs with Botteron (Swiss), Ruff (Swiss?), Haesenne
          (Holland), Wetzel (Germanic surname), Cook/Koch (German), Cortinas (Spain). and also 3
        Englishmen Lincoln, Rose # 1 and Smithers, as well as Moore # 1 (Irish), and 7 Americans, Nichols,
          Jones # 5, Cooper # 2, Sparkman, Steeley, Walker # 6 and Navoyski. [latter is an assumed surname]
  Manning 47FPH in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether confirmed or
            predicted as G. Though he lists English ancestry, the pedigree listed ends with an American
            ancestor. Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs with Cook/Koch (Germany), Jones # 5
            (Wales) and 3 Americans, Walker # 6, Cooper and Navoyski (the latter an assumed name)
Lincoln # 1 KACDH in Y-Search.  19496 in G Project. Confirmed by lab as G2a, but negative
             for G2a1 and G2a2.  He is closely related to Lincoln # 2 & # 3 (below) with only American origins.
             He was determined later to be part of this subgroup and is thus omitted from the diagram.

who list origins in Ireland

Moore # 1 6Z9J3 in Y-Search. This is an American, and there is some question of the certainty
            of the Irish origins.  Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether predicted or confirmed
            as G. He shares a common ancestor with 1000 yrs. with Massey (English) and Cook/Koch
            (German) and Walker # 6 (American)

who list origins in Switzerland
Ruff R49J2 in Y-Search. 49478 in Y-Search. Only predicted as G. Shares a common
           ancestor within 1000 yrs. with Beery (Swiss), Wetzel (Germanic surname), 5 Englishmen (Howard # 1,
           Rose # 1, Bailey, Massey, and Elliott), Kincaid #2 (N. Ireland), and 8 Americans (Steeley, Navoyski,
           Knowles, Nichols, Carroll, French, Bird and Burton). Ruff has particularly close genetic
           relationships to Howard, Steeley and Navoyski. Because he provides no history, it cannot be
           ruled out that a non-paternity event occurred within English-speaking areas if today this is
           not sample taken in Switzerland.
Botteron # 1 BYV2G in Y-Search. 45569 in G Project. Confirmed by lab as G2a but negative for
          G2a1 and G2a2.
Botteron # 2 R4586 in Y-Search. 52740 in G Project. Only predicted as G.
         The common 12 markers of the 2 Botterons all match. Share a common ancestor within 1000
         yrs. with Rufener (Swiss), Wetzel (Germanic surname), Cook/Koch (Germany), Haesenne (Holland),
        Platt (German ancestry), 3 Englishmen, Massey, Hampshire and Lincoln, and 3 Americans, Nichols,
         Walker # 6 and Navoyski. [the latter is an assumed surname]
Reber A sample in the Sorenson database. Though he lacks full 37 markers, his exact match to Botteron
         # 1 with a lesser number of markers means he is probably part of the subgroup. Has not been tested for G.
Howery # 1/Hauri/Swanstrom.  ABY52 in Y-Search..    His 32 markers are enough to confirm he is part of this
          group # 1 and probably also this subgroup. He is extemely close genetically to Jensen (Norway) though 37
          markers are not available. It seems likely he is also related to Howery # 2 (Germany) who only has 12 markers.
          Howery # 1 is 140 in G Project who is confirmed as G2a but unclear if tested further.

who list origins in Germany
Cook/Koch  8FKJG in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether predicted or confirmed
            as G. Besides having a Germanic surname, he is thought to have arrived in the U.S. with emigrants from
            the Palatinate, now in Germany (as Pfalz). He shares a common ancestor within 1000 years with
            Haesenne (Dutch), Kincaid (N. Ireland), Moore # 1 (Ireland), Botteron (Swiss), Ruff (Swiss?),
            Wetzel (Germanic surname), Jones # 5 (Wales), 4 Englishmen, Lincoln, Massey, Manning, Smithers,
            and 3 Americans, Steeley, Nichols, Cooper, Navoyski [the latter an assumed name] He is also
            extremely closesly related to Walker # 6 (American)
Wetzel # 1 (Germanic surname) XF5YV in Y-Search. 79755 in G Project. Lab makes no prediction
            as to G status.
Wetzel # 2 NPRJV in Y-Search.   Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether predicted or confirmed
            as G.
       The Wetzels are closely related. They share a common ancestor within 1000 years with 2 Swiss men,
       Botteron, Rufener, and with Ruff (Swiss?), Nyman/Fritsche (German), Cortinas (Spain), Wilson # 1
       (Wales), Massey (English), and 5 Americans Steeley, Nichols, Knowles, Sparkman and Navoyski
       [the latter an assumed name]
  Howery # 2 JNN3A in Y-Search. His 12 markers exactly match Howery # 1 (Swiss). Because of limited
            markers available, he should be considered borderline for inclusion in this subgroup until more markers are
            Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether predicted or confirmed as G.

who list origins in Holland
Haesenne   RBVPR in Y-Search. 31992 in G Project. Confirmed by the lab as G (M201+) but
            unclear whether tested further. Shares a common ancestor within 1000 years with Botteron (Swiss),
            Cook/Koch (Germanic surname) and 4 Americans, Walker # 3, Robbins, Steeley and Navoyski.
            [the latter is an assumed name] In Garvey project (Y-139) found to be G2a with U8+ but not
                                         U1, U13 or U16

who list origins in Norway
Jensen  This is a sample in the Sorenson database that closely matches Howery # 1.   But the lack of
            the full 37 markers means he is borderline for inclusion in this subgroup until more markers
            are available.

who have unlisted or unknown origins in the Old World
Steeley U3FGM in Y-Search. 24552 in G Project. Only predicted as G. Shares a common
              ancestor within 1000 yrs with Haesenne (Dutch), Ruff (Swiss?), 3 Englishmen (Smithers, Nichols,
              Howard #1), Wetzel (Germanic surname), Cook/Koch (German), and various Americans: Mills # 3,
              Robbins, the Baileys, Walker # 6 and Navoyski. This suggests the common ancestor was in central
             Europe in the early Middle Ages.
Lincoln # 2 T3EMB in Y-Search. He or Lincoln # 3 is 45283 in G Project.
Lincoln # 3  MGVB4 in Y-Search. He or Lincoln # 2 was confirmed as G2a but unclear if tested
               further. Lincoln # 2 and # 3 are exactly the same and both are very close to Lincoln # 1
               who has info about an English origin. These Lincolns share a common ancestor within 1000
               years with Cook/Koch (German), Massey & Kaye (English), Hines (Irish) and Botteron (Swiss).
               Lincoln was determined later to be part of this subgroup and is thus not included on the diagram
               above.
Nichols  A group of men with similar marker values in Y-Search. They will not be listed individually.
              Link here to see all of them in Y-Search.  Most are in the G Project with values beginning
              14, 22, 15. [There is another Nichols family with different values] Only predicted as G.
              Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs with 3 Swiss men (Botteron, Ruff (?), Rufener),
              Wetzel (Germanic surname), Cook/Koch (German), Steck (Austrian), 2 Englishmen, Massey
              and Kaye, and 3 Americans, Walker # 6, Robbins. andNavoyski. [the latter is an assumed
              surname]
Navoyski [adopted surname] BFKGU in Y-Search. N14424 in G Project. Only predicted as
              G. Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs with 4 Swiss men, Ruff (?), Rufener, Beery and
              Botteron, also Haesenne (Dutch), Steck (Austrian) Wetzel (Germanic surname), Hamman,
              Tank, and Cook/Koch (German), Kincaid # 2 (N. Ireland); 6 Englishman, Smithers, Bailey, Howard # 1,
              Massey, Manning and Rose, and Americans, Knowles, Nichols, Jones # 5, Carroll, Robbins,
              Cooper # 2, Steeley, Walker # 6 and Burton.
Walker # 6 EGSYX in Y-Search. 32226 in G Project. Only predicted by lab as G.
              He shares a common ancestor within 1000 years with
             Haesenne (Dutch), Kincaid (N. Ireland), Moore # 1 (Ireland), Botteron (Swiss), Ruff (Swiss?),
             Wetzel (Germanic surname), Jones # 5 (Wales), 4 Englishmen, Lincoln, Massey, Manning, Smithers,
             and 3 Americans, Steeley, Nichols, Cooper, Navoyski [the latter an assumed name] He is also
             extremely closesly related to Cook/Koch (German)