Details about the G2c mostly Ashkenazi Jewish clade



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                       link here to all persons listed here in Y-Search           link here to the lab results in Haplo G Project
                       link here to the Sorenson Y-DNA database              link here to YHRD database
                                 [search for surname using FTDNA values]

Please note that all references to the old terminology for this group have been changed here to
say G2c.  Some other locations on the Internet may still use the old term, G5.

Explanation of this clade   
As shown in the 67-marker network chart, this clade is quite distant genetically from other G persons.
A high percentage, though not all, of these men seem to be Ashzenaki Jewish with known origins of the
bulk of them in northeastern Europe.  Beginning in the late 1800s many Ashkenazi Jews emigrated
to America and other countries.  Most of those remaining perished in the Nazi extermination efforts.

Haplogroup G constitutes almost 10% of the Ashkenazi population which is mostly haplogroup J.
Perhaps about half of Ashkenazi G persons belong to haplogroup subgroup G2c.
Most Ashkenazis are descendants of Jews who fled the extermination attempts in the Rhineland in
present-day Germany in the 1300s.  They found refuge in northeastern Europe though migration to
that area may have begun earlier.

An important question is whether this G2c group even earlier accompanied the Jewish migration out of
the Middle East about 2,000 years ago ...OR...whether these G2c's consist of natives of northeastern
Europe or the Caucasus region who were incorporated into the Jewish population.  There are no obvious
large non-Jewish G2c groups today in northeastern Europe or the Caucasus region, and there is no
way to tell whether the isolated instances of non-Jewish G2c's in that area represent Jewish intermarriage
or not.  The presence of G2c persons among old families of the Middle East would strongly suggest
the origin of this group before the Current Era in the Middle East.  Some samples from the Middle
East seemed initially to be G2c, but have now been shown something else.  So this question of origins
must remain open.  Some southern Italy samples are currently under investigation to see if they are
G2c.  They have a different DYS393 value from all the other G2c's if so.  The rare G2c persons
not belonging to this clade have been found in Turkey, Pakistan and Uzbekistan.

Countries of origin are not listed above in the chart as there is no geographical pattern to the
branching shown.  Just about every node and branch is geographically mixed.  It is unknown if this
mixing is due to considerable wandering in the last 500 years or whether due to an original dispersion
of somewhat related men to many locales.  Ted Kendall has suggested this dispersion may be due
to young men traveling some distances to attend Yeshiva schools — a common practice.  Ted also
has noticed, nevertheless, that a high percentage of the origins are within the historic boundaries of the
Kingdom of Poland and Grand Duchy of Lithuania, 1389-1765.  Map of this area.  A few samples are from
areas in central Europe to which Jewish persons are known to have emigrated in recent centuries.

It is not known how distant this G2c clade here is from several Pakistanis and one man from eastern
Turkey who have been found to be G2c but currently have only a few markers available for
comparison.

Link here to some information contributed by Ted Kandell on Jewish name changes .
Ted Kandell maintains a page listing G2c persons as well as some other information.

Comment added September 2007:
Although based only on rough estimates extrapolated from recent pedigrees, the following seems
to apply to men in this group with 37 markers:   Jewish surnames were adopted relatively late. 
About 15% of the men in this clade seem to share a common male ancestor within 300 yrs.  About 5%
share a common ancestor prior to the year 1000 unless there have been a series of multi-step
mutations that distort the distance of relationships.  The remaining 80% seem to share a common
male ancestor since the year 1000 and before the year 1600 with the most likely period being in the
mid-1300s which corresponds with the migration from the Rhineland.

Because of the rather recent common ancestry of this group, any variation in a slower marker
would likely indicate a shared recent common ancestor for anyone who shares this value.
The following are oddities in slow markers in this G2c clade and the men who share these:
DYS393.... value of 12 (Skwiras, Gholson, Ladizhinsky)
DYS455.....value of 12 (Carmel, Ader, Gross, Henoch)
DYS437.....value of 15 (Kane)
DYS537.....value of 12 (Burtnick)
DYS594.....value of 11 (Jacobs).....value of 9 (Morgenstern, Lisogurski)

Persons probably belonging to this clade      August 2007 update
............confirmed members with 37 markers listed on the graph above are in bold
.....................those with fewer than 37 markers who only seem to belong to the clade are in plain type

who list origins in Russia
        ........some of these are likely actually from some countries part of the USSR now independent.
 Adlin  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N13461in Y-Search.  Predicted only as G.
 Bakalar  WXJ4B in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably 
             and EPM4G                                                                                        not tested further
 Braunstein -- in Sorenson database.  Not tested for G status.
 Bronsky  FP8E5 in Y-Search.  N5694 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Chasin  7DBKD in Y-Search.  N49558 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Hoffman  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N3672 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Karp  6N65C in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  [This man's inclusion here is borderline]
                                      Untested for G & lab makes no prediction.
 Levy/Chapkovsky  J2BS7 in Y-Search.  19958 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Motele/Chemerensky  KGBQN in Y-Search.   Apparently not in G Project.   Confirmed as G (M201+) 
                                      but probably not tested further
 Rees  Apparently not in Y-Search.  51577 in G project.  Predicted only as G.
 Saltzman  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N1901 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Shapera/Chemerensky  KGBQN in Y-Search.  N11000 in G Project.  Confirmed by lab as G (M201+)
                                     but unclear if tested further.
 White  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N4696 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.

who list origins in the Ukraine
 Arbit   5D26C in Y-Search.  43986  in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Burtnick 3JTAQ in Y-Search  N1899 in G Project.  Confirmed as G2c by lab. [same result in Garvey
                                                                                                                project Y-135]
 Dick  D9JA5 in Y-Search.  92699 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Fiol  WUE3K in Y-Search.  93800 in G Project.  Only predicted as G.
            Thinks his family might have Spanish Sephardic origins - no proof.  Results received too late
             to include on diagram above.
 Gross  S768U in Y-Search.  50846 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably not tested further.
 Ivins  ZSSEC in Y-Search.   55310 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably not tested further.
 Kandell  YGYTX in Y-Search.    567 in G Project.  Family Tree DNA Lab found him positive for G2 [dubious],
                                                                       but Garvey project Y-106 found him positive for G2c .
 Kurtchik/Friedman  KKR9H in Y-Search.  N16714 in G Project.
 Levinson  J87S5 in Y-Search.   54416 in G Project.  Predicted by lab only as G.
 Ladyjensky  Apparently not in Y-Search.  73394 in G Project.  Predicted by lab only as G.
 Oberman/Guberman  FMAH4 in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  No info on testing.
 Popelianski  8K48F in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Untested for G & lab makes no prediction.
 Schneider  7GPGQ in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Schreier  EM5MW in Y-Search.  54416 in G Project.  Confirmed as G2c by lab.
 Skwiras/Squires   NKA2X in Y-Search.  63693 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably
                                                                                                                              not tested further.
 Sussman  PTF4A in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Untested for G & lab makes no prediction.
 Weintraub  Apparently not in Y-Search.  84354 in G Project. Only predicted as G.  Results received
                too late to include on diagram above.
 Wolins/Volinskij   6YVVR in Y-Search.  33083 in G Project. Predicted only as G. 

who list origins in Lithuania
 Arnold/Amolsky  Apparently not in Y-Search.  77474 in G Project.  Only predicted as G.
 Becker # 2  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N18618 in G Project.  Only predicted as G.
 Chait  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N42824 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Finkelstein  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N1914 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Jeff/Jaffe  2D42M in Y-Search.  71477 in G Project.  Confirmed by lab as G but unclear if tested further.
 Kaplan  PHBAU in Y-Search.  53051 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Kielja/Keilson  BH64Q in Y-Search.  81775 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.  Exactly matches
            37 markers of Franciscus (Germany)
 Kivel  Apparently not in Y-Search.   N7556 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Luria  GSEHU in Y-Search.  6160 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably not tested further.
           and Luria/Lurie # 2  F65GR in Y-Search.  Results are exactly the same
 Rittenberg -- in Sorenson database
 Rode/Rhode  VJ2R7 in Y-Search.   70426 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Shindell   N2CPQ in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Lab confirms him as G2a (dubious).
 Singman/Schimkov  TFPQ4 in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G project.  Untested for G & lab makes no prediction. 
 Sragon/Wolinsky  94DP6 in Y-Search.  65 in G Project.   Confirmed as G2c by 2 labs. 
 Stern  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N24218 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Winston  D6W2A in Y-Search.   80897 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
                         actually 2 different men, but they are genetically quite close.
 Wolfson RUR2X in Y-Search.  11975 in G Project where more markers shown.  Predicted only as G.
 Zold  Apparently not in Y-Search.  86138 in G Project.  Confirmed by the lab as G2c .  Results received
                         too late to include on diagram above.  Seems very close to Kielja/Keilson.

who list origins in Latvia
 Jeff/Jaffe  2D42M in Y-Search.  714777 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably not tested further.
 Joseph  H5ZPH in Y-Search.  20082 in G Project.  Untested for G & lab makes no prediction.  Origin has ??'s
 Kramm/Wiener P2BQJ in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Mayafitt  Apparently not in Y-Search.   N39864 in G Project.   Predicted only as G.

who list origins in Moldova
 Balanky # 2  Z44NV in Y-Search.  42535 in G project. [listed under Russia] Predicted only as G.  
          Balanky # 1 seems the same.  ETSUE in Y-Search.
 Neff/Kishinevsky   PAMSG in Y-Search.  22382 in G Project. [listed under Russia]  
                            In the G Project the lab predicts he is G, but in Y-Search the lab makes no prediction.

who list origins in Poland
 Ader # 2   DCKG5 in Y-Search.   72341 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Brenner  Apparently not in Y-Search.   N39181 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Frotman  Apparently not in Y-Search.   47072 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Goldstein/Gaworczyk  K24A5 in Y-Search. 79704 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Gluckman  4MUAB in Y-Search.  N16483 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Jacobs  Apparently not in Y-Search.  15479 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Korwin  JVZ3G in Y-Search.  N34648 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Krotenberg T5ECT in Y-Search.  988 & 989 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Lakritz  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N49348 in G project. Predicted only as G.
 Lawson # 2   DB7VQ     in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Untested for G & lab makes no prediction. 
             [and Lawson # 1  B2832 same results]
 Lisogurski/Cutter  5WM4R in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Untested for G & lab makes no prediction. 
 Morgenstern/Morgentern  9URUA in Y-Search.   2251 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+)
                                                                                                    but probably not tested further.
 Moseley/Servian  ZWPQM and DKPMN in Y-Search.  37176 and 37213 in G project  
                                         Confirmed only as G (M201+)
 Ramon/Wenzelberg  4UJYT in Y-Search.  N3032 in G project.  Predicted only as G.
 Sachs FZHT9 in Y-Search.  18248 in G Project.  Garvey project Y-115 found him positive for G2c. 
 Schwartz  Apparently not in Y-Search.   N18816 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Shrank  MVQV4 in Y-Search.  N7487 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Stavsky/Judkevitch  JZN4B in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Unclear whether predicted or
                                       confirmed as G.
 Strom/Wasserstrum   QETFM in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.   Untested for G & lab makes no prediction.
 Wlodawer -- in Sorenson database
 Wrobel  VD4Z2 in Y-Search.  N4526 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.

who list origins in Belarus
 Grossman  RE8R5 in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Untested for G & lab makes no prediction. 
 Grundfest   ZV2SY in Y-Search.  60057 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Henkin WMMSH in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Untested for G & lab makes no prediction.
 Kukish -- in Sorenson database
 Levenson BCDBA in Y-Search.  N35324 in G Project. [listed under Russia]  Predicted only as G.
 Miller # 9  MVH99 in Y-Search.  N34986 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+)
                                                                                                    but probably not tested further.
 Tucker/Tokar  N87SB in Y-Search.  N10949 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.

who list origins in Germany
 Bauer  QH7A8 in Y-Search.  10414 in G Project.  [thinks his family is Sephardic Jewish]
                                                              Confirmed as G2c by lab.
 Bilstein  64P4W in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably not tested further.
 Ettinger.  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N45112 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Franciscus  F2AUV in Y-Search.  90252 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.  Exactly matches
               Kielja/Keilson (Lithuania) at 37 markers.  Results received too late to include on diagram above.
 Gump  9S7Q2 in Y-Search.  N48137 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Hagedorn  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N34699 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Leininger/Tuteur  8G8K9 in Y-Search.  N19292 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably
                                                                                                                              not tested further.
 Merton/Moses  8FTWV in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project. Untested for G & lab makes no prediction.
 Narruhn   TMH9G in Y-Search.  N8327 in G Project.   Predicted only as G, but lab confident this is G.
 Newman/Neumann  VXNJS in Y-Search.  N39954 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably
                                                                                                                              not tested further.
 Petry  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N37969 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Rosenberg  NFCRZ in Y-Search.  N10818 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Sirmon  J7EWM in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Unclear whether tested or predicted G.
 Weil  K83NA in Y-Search.  51776 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.

who list origins in Romania
 Segal  Apparently not in Y-Search.   76827 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Solomon  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N8199 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.

who list origins in Austria or Austro-Hungary               
 Hamburger   7PPUD in Y-Search. [Austro-Hungary origin]  Apparently not in G Project.
                                            Untested for G & lab makes no prediction. 
 Kolber  4K52C in Y-Search.   Apparently not in G Project.  Untested for G & lab makes no prediction.
 Kronish  Apparently not in Y-Search.   25448 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Meiselman  967DK in Y-Search.  N6048 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Schneider  VDCAN in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Unclear if confirmed G or only predicted.
 Sultan  2JVTX in Y-Search.  60720 in G Project.  Untested for G & lab makes no prediction. 

 who list origins in the Czech Republic 
 Engel  MC4DJ in Y-Search.   Apparently not in G Project.  Predicted only as G.

who list origins in Israel
 Henoch  Apparently not in Y-Search.  48308 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably
                                                                                                                              not tested further. 
                Second-hand information indicates his family originally from northeastern Europe.

who list origins in England
 Hart   95CSU in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.   Untested for G & lab makes no prediction.
 Kennedy 7X86J in Y-Search.   Apparently not in G Project.   
 Entry in YHRD database # 434, sample taken in London

who list origins in Ireland
 Ganley  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N37803 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.

whose origins in the Old World are unknown or unlisted
 Behar et al. study of Ashkenazi Jews -- 21 men
 Bell # 3   Apparently not in Y-Search.   54146 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Carmel  Apparently not in Y-Search.  82104 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Feldman  PBXDF in Y-Search.  65873 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+).  Not tested for G2c.
 Fox # 2   Apparently not in Y-Search.  79937 in G Project.  Confirmed as G (M201+) but probably
                                                                                                                              not tested further.
 Goldberg  Apparently not in Y-Search.  N48113 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Goldson  Apparently not in Y-Search.  83325 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Hawkins  R2PKZ in Y-Search.  17851 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Joseph  Apparently not in Y-Search.  20082 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Kane  Apparently not in Y-Search.  90549 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Orr 7NYF9 in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Listed as G, testing uncertain.
 Rogosin  9ZT6Z in Y-Search.  Apparently not in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Simon  RPTXP in Y-Search.    Apparently not in G Project.  He entered G in Y-Search, unclear if
                                                                       tested or predicted.
 Stacel  Apparently not in Y-Search.  75527 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.
 Trunk  Apparently not in Y-Search.  94259 in G Project.  Predicted only as G.