Details about the G2a3 (U8*) clade (DYS388=13)
subgroup with DYS594= 11 that is unusually Welsh
with a Swiss connection

                         link here to all persons listed who are closely related who are in Y-Search
                         link here to other persons in Y-Search not part of the closely related group
                          link here to the lab results in Haplo G Project
                         link here to the Sorenson Y-DNA database                link here to YHRD database
                                 [search for surname using FTDNA values]

Explanation of this subgroup
Please note that all references to the old terminology for this group have been changed here to
say G2a. Some other locations on the Internet may still use the old term, G2.

This subgroup has all the features of Group I, but they share a more recent common male ancestor.
This ancestor developed a mutation at marker DYS594, a slow marker. Mutations occur at this
marker at an average of 1 in 3000 generations. This new value of 11 is not found among G
persons outside of this subgroup described here. This marker is part of the 67-marker set from
Family Tree DNA, and there are likely others with this mutation that cannot be identified here
due to the lack of markers 38 thru 67 for comparison.

There are two additional subgroups identifiable here. A diagram is shown above for the most
closely related of the men. It is composed mostly of Welshmen and a single Swiss man.
The common ancestor (or closely related common ancestors) shared by this Swiss-Welsh component
probably lived in the late Middle Ages. There was an obvious split of those with Welsh-type
surnames and the Swiss one within this subgroup probably also in the late Middle Ages
just before surnames came into common use. Some of the men have pedigrees that go back to the
Renaissance, showing this was not a recent emigration. In addition, one of the men of this
closely related group shares a common ancestor not too much farther back in time with another Swiss man.
Most of the men not in the Swiss-Welsh subgroup are a mixture of Welshmen and Englishmen.

There are persons in the remainder of Group 1 of this clade who are relatively close genetically to
this subgroup.  In cases where a common ancestor within 1000 yrs can be calculated between a member
of the Swiss-Welsh component and persons in the remainder of Group 1, they are listed below.

It is known that the members of this subgroup are G2a, but not G2a1 or G2a2.  None of the men
below seemed to have participated in the Garvey project which found additional G2a mutations.  It is highly
likely, nevertheless, that this subgroup has the new U8 mutation but lacks U1, U13 and U16. This combination of
findings will possibly be categorized as G2a3* when the project is finished and submitted for
categorization.

See the description for the overall Group 1 for further comments. Note also that the main Group 1
page lists persons from eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Iran who might belong somewhere in
Group 1. It is unlikely these easterners would be part of this subgroup.

Persons probably belonging to this subgroup   September 2007 update
............confirmed members with 37 markers listed on the graph above are in bold
.....................those with fewer than 37 markers who only seem to belong to the clade are in plain type

who list origins in England
Wigington/Wygenton J5NWE in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project.  Confirmed by lab
               as G2a. Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs with 3 men with Welsh
               origins or Welsh surname, Roderick/Rytherich, Williams # 7, Jones # 5, as well as
               an American, Bird.
Jones # 7 Apparently not in Y-Search. 37988 in G Project. Only predicted as G.
               He is very close to Jones # 5 genetically.   Jones is a traditional Welsh name.
               Shares a common ancestor with 1000 yrs with Smith # 9 (Swiss), Cook/Koch (German),
               5 Englishmen, Howard, Massey, Wiginton, Manning, Griffin, as well as men from Wales or with
               Welsh surnames, Roderick/Rytherich, Williams # 6 & # 7, Lewis # 3 & # 4, Jones # 8, and
               also 4 Americans, Haney, Crow # 3, Nichols and Navoyski. [the latter name is a name assumed by
               an ancestor]
Howard # 2 KTDAF in Y-Search. 67006 in G Project. Only predicted as G by lab.
Griffin # 1 43AJJ in Y-Search. 67167 in G Project. Only predicted as G by lab.
               Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs with Smith # 9 (Swiss), 3 Americans,
               Anderson, Bird and Crow # 3, as well as 3 men with Welsh origins or Welsh
               surnames, Williams # 7, Roderick/Rytherich and Jones # 5.
Griffin # 2 Apparently not in Y-Search. 53247 in G Project. His 12 markers are the same as Griffin # 1.
Griffin # 3 ASTZG in Y-Search. 48007 in G Project. Only predicted as G. His 25 markers are
                the same as Griffin # 1.
  Walter # 2  TD6NB in Y-Search. 58993 in G Project. Only predicted as G.
               Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs with Williams # 3 (Welsh surname) and
               with 2 Americans, Anderson and Bird# 1.

who list origins in Wales
Lewis # 3  C3NKV in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether confirmed or
           predicted as G.
Lewis # 4  X2JDQ in Y-Search. 50147 in G Project. Only predicted by lab as G.
          The Lewises are closesly related.  One of them lists only American origins, but the other indicates
          a Welsh origin. The Lewises share a common ancestor within 1000 yrs. with 2 Swiss men, Rufener
        and Smith # 9, as well as 2 Welshmen, Williams # 6 & # 7, and also Jones # 5 (English), and 2 Americans,
          Haney and Crow # 3.
Roderick/Rytherch 7QPMW in Y-Search. G8552 in G Project. Confirmed by lab as G2a, but
          unclear if tested further. Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs. with Smith # 9 (Swiss),
          Wiginton, Griffin, and Howard # 1 (Englishmen), as well as 4 Welshmen, Williams # 6 & # 7,
          Jones # 5 & # 9, and also 4 Americans, Crow # 3, Haney, Anderson & Taylor # 4.
Williams # 6 MY5MX in Y-Search. 28436 in G Project. Only predicted as G by lab.
Williams # 7 WGCFV in Y-Search.   9658 in G Project. Only predicted as G by lab.
           The Williamses (# 6 & # 7) are closely related. They share a common ancestor within 1000 yrs. with
           Smith # 9 (Swiss), Brace (Scottish), 4 Welshmen, Roderick/Rytherich, Lewis # 3 & # 4,
           Jones # 5, as well as 4 Americans, Haney, Bird, Taylor # 4 and Crow # 3.
Jones # 5 HTX4Q in Y-Search. 37154 in G Project. Only predicted as G by lab. [Welsh surname]
           Shares a common ancestor with 1000 yrs with Smith # 9 (Swiss), Cook/Koch (German),
           5 Englishmen, Howard, Massey, Wiginton, Manning, Griffin, as well as men from Wales or with
           Welsh surnames, Roderick/Rytherich, Williams # 6 & # 7, Lewis # 3 & # 4, Jones # 8, and
           also 4 Americans, Haney, Crow # 3, Nichols and Navoyski. [the latter name is a name assumed by
           an ancestor] He is also very close genetically to Jones # 7.
Thomas # 1 64EE7 in Y-Search.
Thomas # 2 VD6GE in Y-Search.
           Unable to distinguish which G Project kit belongs to # 1 and # 2....64857, 37258 and 42489
            all are exact matches at 67 markers. Confirmed by the lab as G2a but unclear if tested further.
           Thomas # 1 and # 2 are very closely related -- perfect matches at 67 markers. They share
            a common ancestor within 1000 years with Welshman Jones # 9 and 2 Americans, Anderson
            and (both) Birds.

who list origins in Switzerland
Smith # 9 YUV2D in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether predicted or
            confirmed as G.   Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs with 6 men from Wales or
            having Welsh surnames, Jones # 5, Roderick/Rytherich, Lewis # 3 and # 4, Williams # 6 & # 7,
            and also Griffin (English) and 2 Americans, Haney and Crow # 3.

who have unlisted or unknown origins in the Old World
Haney KN3UF in Y-Search. 60056 in G Project. Confirmed by lab as G (M201+) but unclear
               if tested further. He shares a common ancestor within 1000 years with Smith # 9 (Swiss),
               Brace (Scottish), 6 putative Welshmen, Williams # 6 & 7, Lewis # 3 & 4, Jones # 5,
               Roderick/Rytherich, as well as 2 Americans, Bird and Crow # 3
Bird # 1  ZVDZY in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project. Unclear whether predicted or confirmed as
               G. Shares a common ancestor within 1000 yrs. with Walter (English) and 4 men who
               are Welsh or have a Welsh surname, Williams # 3, Jones # 9, Thomas # 1 and # 7.
               Bird # 2 W8G63 in Y-Search. Apparently not in G Project is apparently a relative.
               Bird # 2 has many markers, and they match closely some of Bird # 1's markers, but
               Bird # 1 and # 2 do not have many similar markers to compare.
Mangum Apparently not in Y-Search. 55952 in G Project. Only predicted as G by lab.
               No info on origins.
Rippy [assumed name] F8Y68 in Y-Search. 91102 in G Project. Confimed by lab as G (M201+) but
               unclear if tested further. His results received too late to include on diagram above. The original
               family surname was thought to be Wigginton or Wiggleton.
Crow/Crowe This is a group of apparently closely related men in Y-Search.   They willl not
           be listed individually, but link here to see the ones in Y- Search. Only one, # 14580,
           is in G project.  He is only predicted to be G, and it is unclear whether the rest are
           predicted or confirmed as G.
      They share a common ancestor within 1000 yrs. with Smith # 9 (Swiss) and 6 putative Welshmen,
      Roderick/Rytherich, Jones # 5, Williams # 6 & # 7, Lewis # 3 & # 4, and Griffin (English),
      as well as 2 Americans, Haney and Anderson.